tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC July 9, 2012 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT
finish with a solution in search of a problem. republican backeded voter i.d. laws designeded to to keep dem from voting. david corn is washington bureau chief for mother jones magazine and author of "showdown." robert costa is with national review. today, the president tried to turn the conversation to a message of tax fairness and called on congress to pass an extension for part of the bush tax cuts for people making less than $250,000 a year. >> we all say we agree we should extend the tax cuts for 98% of the american people. the republicans say they don't want to raise taxes on the middle class, i don't want to raise taxes.
let's agree to do what we agree on. let's not hold the vast majority of americans and our entire economy hostage. >> at the white house afterwards, jay carney tack took it a step further saying the president would not sign any bill if it included the extension of the tax cuts on the wealthy. later, mitt romney accused the president of a massive tax hike on job creator. >> what the president's proposinging, a massive tax increase on job creators and small business. small businesses are overwhelmingly being tacked, but at the individual tax rate. so successful small businesses will see their taxes go up d dramatically and that will kill jobs. that will be another kick in the gut to the middle class in america. >> robert, the president says look, we have such little agreement among us on different
side of the the fence, at least we can agree that here's a group of folks who ought to have a n continuation of the bush tax cuts. what's the response. >> two big take aways from today. one on the politics. general election campaign, he's trying to throw a bone to frustrated middle class voters say i'm with you. make sure your rates stay at the rate they are today. but politics on capitol hill are a little different. two years ago, president obama extended the cuts. obama's signalsiling to people capitol hill, but laying out the stakes for that this year. >> why not do that for which tlgd be agreement on. he or she who's making $261,000 a year is going to enjoy the
bush tax cut for the first 250 of that. >> you're committing the sin of talking sense. it was a question our pal didn't answer when he gave his response to you. the president saying we can agree on 98%, but republicans are holding that 98% hostage as they did in 2010, knowing that it's very difficult to justify continuing these tax cut bonuses for the rich. the only way they can get them, they can't on their own. if they hold the 98% of the rest of us hostage. they did that in 2010. that's your strategy again and they're just going to try to steer the president down and claim this is a tax hike. listen. the tax cut, which bush brought into existence, were designed to be temporary, so if you go back, revert to the original rate, you can call that a tax hike. it's double talk.
it's you know, you have to keep sloeting to keep these things going otherwise they revert back. they can only do it by coupling them to the tax cuts for everybody else. >> robert, republicans want all the tax cuts extended. they argue, job creators and the more money they have, the better it is for growth. here is haley barbour today. >> the united states is in a global battle for capital and labor. if we're trying to attract capital so we can hire more people, deploy technology, improve benefits, what do you think that $850 billion is going to go? it's going to go to government instead of for more employees, higher wages and expanding the economy. pretty simple.
>> the bush tax cuts for the well thinkest of americans, why do we still have this funk, this malaise in the economy. they don't create jobs. your response would be what? >> to blame this recession on the bush tax cuts which came into effect ten years ago, i think most republicans and conservatives would shake their head at that. financial collapse of 2008 is the significant factor in the recession. but to say the low tax rates, what romney was saying the president effectively writing off all voters making over $250,000. he's trying to win the voters making 250,000 or less. but for the individuals that pay, obama doesn't want to speak with him. >> i guess what i'm asking is
whether there's anything quantifiabl quantifiable, here are jobs created by individuals because they are wealthy americans and were able to enjoy the fruits of the bush tax cuts. >> if you do not extend the rates, you will have more revenue for the federal government and the democratic argument would be that would lead to growth. if you look at what happened over the president's spending over the last three years, with unemployment stagnant, stays at around 8 p%, i don't more reven would lead to growth. >> michael, quick reaction. >> we have empirical evidence. look at the bush years recession. you cut all those taxes, cut those taxes, then create a lot of growth. clinton actually raised taxes and you had growth for the clinton years. i'm not saying this is cause and
effect, but there is no imperical evidence that if you cut taxes on the rich that jobs are created. it's not an article of policy. of faith. ideology. religion for the right. >> the democratic message on taxes is also personal. president obama's allies are ramping up calls on governor romney to release more of his past tax returns. this follows reporting that romney has stored assets in notorious tax shelters. >> the next four year, we're going to have to undergo comprehensive tax reform. and you know, he is somebody who has sheltered their income taxes in switzerland and the caymans and bermuda really somebody who's going to get under the hood and get us to a place of tax fairness. we need to know why he's got
that money there. >> i'd really like to see mitt romney release more than one year of tax r records because there have been disturbing reports recently that he's got a secretive bermuda corporation that no one knows anything about, investments in the caymans, swiss bank account. >> when it comes down to his swiss bank account, there is just no way to explain it. >> robert costa, financially smart, maybe for romney as an individual, but politically unwise for a guy who has known for years that he'd be running for president. >> it's not politically unwise to do something that's entirely legal, which is invest globally. mitt romney has made a career of investing globally. when it comes to disclosure, he should disclosure as much he can. the democrats may have a case there. the one year of tax returns may not be enough for the general election. but to try to portray romney as
sipping a pina colada in bermuda or switzerland, it's class welfare. if he loses voters because of a swiss bank account, those voters were already voting for the democrats. >> it doesn't help you establish a common bond with middle america. >> michael, your argument is that having money means or having a lot of money means you can't have any kind of common bond? i think he's trying to counteract that by going on a bus tour. it's absurd in american politics if a wealthy person is d disqualified from being president. >> if i'm trying to reach middle class voters -- over the weekend, romney raised millions of dollars from wealthy donors in the hamptons. one quote's getting a lot of attention for sounding especially town deaf. the l.a. times caught up with
one donor as she was heading to a fund-raiser and the woman said i don't think the common person is getting it. nobody understands why obama is hurting them. we've got the message, but my college kid, the babysitters, the nails ladies, everybody who's got the right to vote, if you're lower income, you're not educated, two, they don't understand how it works, they don't understand the pact. >> that's the problem with this country, that nail ladies can vote and they don't know what's going on. it speaks for itself. i have to say in response to what robert just said, having swiss bank accounts and cayman island accounts doesn't disqualify you. what might is if you don't have more disclosure. everyone should read the "vanity fair" piece from last week, he raises lots of real questions
that can only be answereded by releasing tax runs. the fact that mitt romney is not releasing those records, only can lead to greater suspicion and shows he doesn't really care about disclosure and is just an opaque rich guy like people suspect. >> thank you for being here. coming up, one of the leaders of the pray away the gay movement says he was wrong. he says there's no cure for homosexuality and he'll join us. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ male announcer ] wouldn't it be cool if we took the nissan altima and reimagined nearly everything in it? gave it greater horsepower and best in class 38 mpg highway... ...advanced headlights... ...and zero gravity seats? yeah, that would be cool. ♪ introducing the completely reimagined nissan altima. it's our most innovative altima ever. nissan. innovation that excites. ♪
the obama campaign's fund raising totals for june are in an the campaign along with the dnc and obama victory fund raised $71 million last month. that's team obama's best month so far this campaign, but it falls well short of the romney campaign last month. 106 million bucks. we'll be light back. let's do this
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three years ago, i welcomed my next guest to discuss the american psychological association's reputeuation of gay to straight therapy. as president of exodus international, the largest evangelical organization dealing with this issue,al l alan chamb believed you could pray away the gay. >> i'm denying the power those things had over me. people say once you're gay, you're always gay, you can't break free from that. that's not true. >> chambers even appeared with his wife in ads saying change is possible, but now, he's saying there's no cure and that therapy doesn't wipe out desires. he is still president of exodus and husband and father of two kids and is joining me now. what happened? what accounts for the change in position? >> i want to be clear. the fact is, my life is still as
it was when i was on your radio program three years ago and i still hold to a biblical sexual ethic, but what i think what's changed for me is really the overemphasis on this issue in ways that we don't emphasize other issues in the church and specifically, with regards to repairtive therapy, so much of that type of technique and therapy is focused on changing attraction or changing temptation when i don't there is a biblical reality that says people will necessarily change their temptations or change their struggles. so i want to be very, very clear about that. >> how about the practical reality? can you pray away the gay? >> i think that praying away the gay has been a lazy stereotype.
that's not what i did. as far as repairtive therapy, for year, we endorsed that and had people within our movement who did therapy, but so much of the focus is changing there where they're talking about 100% cures and using that word specifically with me in private conversations and even introduce ing things like hetero sexual pornography to help instigate attraction. i don't find that healthy at all. >> i guess what i'm waiting for you to say is that it doesn't work because in the times, quote, he said that vir yully exgay he has met still harbors homosexual cravings, himself including. you're married, father of two. you have homosexual cravings, is
that right? >> i have same sex attractions. i didn't use the word cravings nor would i. my attractions, if you want to know, are specifically and always towards my wife. for me, those things have changed. my life is not the the same as it was 21 years ago when i sought help, but to say that i don't have temptations or could never be tempted or don't have same-sex attractions isn't true. for me as a christian leader and as someone helping people in their journey say those things very, very clearly. >> if you have those attractions because i think i still heard you say you still maintain, not that there's anything wrong with it, are you trapped in that march of yours? >> i'm not trapped in that marriage. i married my wife 15 years ago because i was in love with her. i remain in love with her.
that love has only grown deeper. never in 15 years have i been tempted to be unfaithful to my wife. i love her. she is the object of my every affection. to say i don't have -- >> what would you say to a young person who perhaps three years ago at the time we first met listened to alan chambers and took to heart your message as it then existed and pursued a career path hoping they could turn away from these innate feelings. do you apologize? say i got it wrong and come back to this fold? what's the message? >> well, inni think if someone hears my message and -- that those feelings are going to go away and their lives are going to be anything like my life, i am sorry for that. that has never been my intention.
my intention is to simply help people of faith who are in conflict to live either sell bat lives or pursue a life congruent with their faith. >> would a homosexual be precluded admission from heaven on the basis of their sexuality according to alan chambers? >> well, thankfully, it's not according to alan chambers. my biblical beliefs are that no one is excluded to heaven. i think the bible is very simple in its terms of how you come into a relationship. it says ask and you shall receive. knock and the door will be opened to you. it doesn't say anywhere there's any exclusions of people who can seek, ask and knock. >> you defended repairtive
therapy a year ago comparing it to a weight loss struggle. >> it's not picking and choosing people who are gay or lesbian. it really hits all of us. we can look at other organizations who help people dealing with other life struggles. for instance, weight watchers, which has tremendously benefitted by life. should we go after weight watchers and tell them don't say there's anything beyond obesity for people struggling with obesity and want an alternative. >> does that still hold up in your view? >> for me, i think those things do hold up. i have benefitted from weight watchers and other types of programs that have helped me in other areas of struggle in my area. i'm not telling someone that is happily gay identified or gay or lesbian that they should choose the life that i live or that god will love them more or less depending on the decision they
make. for me and for people of faith who want to choose to live through the filter of their faith and a strong biblical sexual ethic in that regard, that they have that right to do that and so when it comes to issues like therapy. i wouldn't say i was defending it a year ago. it is a very small and specific type of therapy that a few thera therapyists use. >> in that age old question, genes versus environment. we agree. gene, right. it's the hand you're dealt. >> i think what we have to do is stop making it so simple. it's not simple. i think nature and nurture play a part in my life. we are genetic beings for sure, but we are certainly a product of the environment we grow up in. >> thanks for being here. we appreciate it cht.
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now to the side show. how debbie wasserman shulgs managed to turn her introduction into a dig at mitt romney. easy. there was talk of a road trip. >> i think the headline of the day is that you just drove 2,000 miles from florida up to new hampshire with four dogs, the cat, the kid and the husband. >> and lived to tell about it and all the dogs were actually
in the car, so i proved it can be done. >> can't miss the swipe. they stuck out the drive without going the romney route of putting the dogs in a kennel. reince priebus made his own appearance, the threat to the united states. >> this president can't fulfill a promise. they're living fantasy land and you know what? we're quoing going to put this dream to an end of theirs in november. hire mitt romney. mitt romney has to win. for the sake of the the very idea of america. mitt romney has to win for liberty and freedom and we have to put an end to this barack obama presidency before it put an ento our way of life in america. people understand that the president is the head of this country. the fish rots at the head. >> so, a vote for obama is a
vote against liberty, freedom and america and mike due kaczmarek tried out the fish analogy once. some are hoping donald trump stays far away from the republican convention. apparently, the the chances of trump taking center stage in florida don't depend on whether he scores a prime speaking slot at the convention. he is being presented with the statesman of the year award just one day before the convention kicks off. after romney clinched the nomination in may, he and trumped teamed up. the downside, trump snatched up all the attention by questioning the president's citizenship. finally it's not secret politics can get brutal, but that's here in the united states. watch what happened during a
live tv debate in jordan last week between a member of parliament, the guy on your right, and his opponent. the one on the left. apparently, the mp took issue with quote being called a quote mafia thief. luckily, no one was injured and the situation is under investigation including how the gun made it inside the studio. this unfolded on live tv. the host described the incident as quote the wild west. up next, back to the campaign. new evidence that president obama's winning the ad war in the key battleground states. you're watching "hardball." the place for politics.
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the dow falls 36. s&p 500 was off by two and the nasdaq down five. second quarter earning season kicked off this afternoon. the company's revenue and profits came in ahead of expectations. facebook shares jumped more than 1% on word it is planning to launch a job posting board and campbell's soup is paying about $1.5 million for boathouse farms. that's it from cnbc first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." the political tv advertising campaign is alive and well this summer if you live in the dozen
or to states that will decide the presidential election. according to "usa today," more than three quarters of swing state voters in states you can see on the map have watched these commercials in the past 30 days and among those who have changed their minds about the president and mitt romney because of the ads, president obama has an overwhelming advantage. 76% now support him. 16% now support mitt romney. the president also holds a narrow lead among all swing state voters in that poll. he leads romney 47 to 45%. susan page is the washington bureau chief for "usa today." she wrote today's cover story and chris cillizza is the author of the new book, the gospel according to the fix, an insider's guide to a less than holy world of politic. susan, i am fascinated by this. there two americas. people who are only learning of
the presidential race by watching news programs, sort of oblivious to the other segments of the country where they are inundated with all the commercials. it's all micro targeting? >> absolutely. if r most of america, they have to tune into "hardball" to see coverage, but in these 12 states, you cannot turn on the tv to watch anything without really facing a deluge of ads on both sides by the campaigns. >> and a great image, the number one markets, political advert e advertisemen advertisements, places like richmond, denver, tampa and others. they're really spending in boston so they can reach new hampshire voters. when you're spending in boston not to reach massachusetts, but to reach new hampshire, that tells you something. >> well, you get, i am a nerd
enough to know the media markets in that state and the boston market reaches into lots of southern new hampshire. the story is is fascinating because what it does is proves what a lot of us follow know. a presidential campaign is a national campaign really in name only. yes, everybody in all 50 stats s gets to vote on november 6th. yes, all the votes count the same, but not really. it's really a series of state based races in those 8 to 12 swing states that make the difference. we could hold the vote now, november 6th or 2020 -- so we're talking about 95, 80 to 95 swing votes coming from those states. it's why barack obama's going to iowa and mitt romney tomorrow is going to colorado. they're not going to go anywhere outside of these places.
>> it's a function of how much money both campaigns have and also, the level of sophisticate, the knowledge that they have about we the voters i think is a big story here as well. for a flavor of what these swing state voters are seeing, take a look at the recent obama campaign ad attacking mitt romney's business record. >> i'm barack obama and i approve this message. >> the chinese are smiling all the way to the bank taking our jobs and future. i'm not going to let that happen. >> newly published documents show mitt romney's firms were pioneers in helping company's outsource their manufacturing to companies including china. baracking they were a one stop shop for their outsourtsing rirms. mitt romney's not the solution. he's the problem. >> and for parody, let me show you a super pac commercial that's being run from the
pro romney side. >> why isn't the the economy stronger? in the seconds it takes to watch this, our national debt will increase 1.4 million. in 2008, barack obama said -- >> we can't mortgage our children's future on a mountain of debt. >> now, he's adding 4 billion in debt every day. every second, growing our debt faster than our economy. tell obama stop the spending. support the new majority agenda. >> so susan, you're saying that few minds have been changed thus far, but those that have been changed overwhelmingly toward obama. how come? >> people know a lot about obama. people don't know much about mitt romney, so when you have an ad like the ad you just showed, it has an impression, a big effect. that's what seems to be happening. why we showed this really d
disportion at impact. the obama ads have succeeded in defining mitt romney in a negative way and that's why these voters have gone in such a heavy way to the president's side. >> let me ask you something that's pure fix material. could it also be that the obama campaign has done a better job marshalling its message? is the romney campaign hindered by making those supportive of romney -- >> barack obama spent about 96 million on ads so far, the vast majority has been spent in the states so far. he spent 87 in the primary. in eight swing states, colorado,
nevada, iowa, new hampshire, in those states, super pacs, that's america's for prosperity, restore our future. but an outside group. they have outspend mitt romney in every single one of those states. mitt romney spent $2 million in florida. crossroads and the koch have spent 9 million. you can control your message a lot easier when it's you paying for it. >> if the campaign decided we need to marshall these forces, that would violate the law. >> absolutely. they cannot coordinate. public buying information, how much money you're spending is public information. you can call the radio station, so you can get it that way.
remember, in 2008, barack obama essentially said you know what, if you want to support me, give it to me. it's why he raised $750 million. it's also why the outside democratic groups are way behind the outside republican groups. >> thank you for being here. up next, the unemployment rate isn't just a number for democrats and republicans to fight over. millions of americans don't have jobs and a new hbo documentary says so. s in your energy drink? ♪ power surge, let it blow your mind. [ male announcer ] for fruits, veggies and natural green tea energy... new v8 v-fusion plus energy. could've had a v8. legalzoom has an easy and affordable option. you get quality services on your terms,
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[ male announcer ] what's the point of an epa estimated 42 miles per gallon if the miles aren't interesting? the lexus ct hybrid. this is the pursuit of perfection. take a look at what john boehner said about mitt romney. he was at a fund-raiser in west virginia last week and offered a straightforward answer to a woman. acco boehner told her no, quote, listen, we're just politicians. i wasn't elected to play god. the american people probably aren't going to fall in love with mitt romney. i'll te you this. 95% of the people that show up to vote in november are going to show up and vote for or against barack obama. mitt romney has some friends, relatives and fellow mormon, some that are going to vote for him, but that's not what this election is about. this election is going to be a referendum on the president's failed economic policies. we'll be right back.
we are all here to represent the country we love this is for everyone back home it's go time. across america, we're all committed to team usa. i'm panic stricken. feeling as if i have absolutely nothing. i don't want to be helped. i want to just help myself, but what we want are jobs. what we need are jobs. in my next job, and i will have a next job, i will thank god every morning and every night for that job. >> we're back. that was a scene from the new hbo documentary, hard times lost on long island.
while the monthly unemployment numbers are a fixture in the news, often lost behind them are the people. c the documentary premiers tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on hbo. the director joins me now. why long island? >> well, it is really the birthplace of post world war ii modern is suburbia, so while there are regions where the housing crisis took a greater toll, we figures let's go to the heart of the american dream and see the fallout. >> the four subjects didn't fit
my notion, but why do you think people will be surprised tonight? >> we are bombarded so much by sound bites that say they're la lazy, good for nothing, free loaders and i think when you start digging deeper and you meet people who have been dislocated by this crisis and through no fault of their own, you see a totally different story. these are people that had successful lives that have done well. and all of a sudden the rug has been pulled out from underneath them. and unlike a catastrophe like an earthquake or a hurricane, it's not all in one moment. it's just kind of a slow motion of disintegration. not only is there tremendous financial hardship, but the psychic toll is enormous. >> the loss of one's job means the loss of health insurance which is a problem your subjects confronted in your new documentary. take a look.
>> i can't go without insurance especially now. it's just not right. i've been working since i was 15 straight through all the years. i never used those benefits. i worked hard for those benefits. now i'm 50 years old and i can't get them. >> mark, what most surprised you spending time with these folks the way that you did? >> i think the most surprising thing, michael, was the sense of isolation. the sense that they're almost invisible. there isn't collective action. there really is their loss they're afraid and ashamed. i was stunned some people that would talk to us off of the record. when we turned on the camera they said no. and we said why? my family doesn't know. my neighbors don't know. that man you just saw. it was the first time their sons learned that their mom was going to a food pantry to get food for the family.
so i think that's what most stun me was the sense of shame and internalizing this sense there must be something wrong with us. >> are they still looking for work? when continuation of unemployment benefits comes up, you'll hear arguments made from some who will say these folks are lingering who are still quote, on the dole for this amount of time. >> these are people desperate for work. not just because of obviously the financial benefits but because of the psychological benefits that it defines who they are. it defines their life in many ways. ironically many of them have been told they're overqualified and also unspoken is if you're over 50 and been out of work for over a year or so, forget it. it's over for you. >> i'm anxious to tune in and watch and see how their extended families are able to cope with this. we have just 20 seconds left. give me an insight into that. >> i think the biggest thing, going back to what you just said, is we had the idea it's
them. it's somebody else. if we wake up and open our eyes, these are our neighbors, our families, our friends. it's us. >> best of luck. i'll be watching. the hbo documentary "hard times: lost on long island" debuts tonight. 9:00 p.m. eastern on hbo. when we return, allow me to finish with a solution in search of a problem. those strict new voter i.d. laws that will keep democrats from voting this november. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.
let me finish tonight with this. they say all politics is local. for me the ongoing battle for integrity versus voter suppression certainly is. i'm from philadelphia. he's from the city, i'm from the burbs. if pennsylvania is a battle ground state, then i live at the front. which is why i can tell you the ramifications of a new voter i.d. law in my home state will have national implications. the new law says voters show photo i.d. when the folks recently compared driver and voter records, they found that 758,939 voters were not on the driver's license lists. it is possible that some of those individuals have the alternative form of acceptable i.d. they include an i.d. from an accredited pennsylvania college
or university, state care facility, military i.d., valid u.s. passport or other photo identification issued by the federal of pennsylvania government or employee i.d. by the county or state government. for most voters, the driver's license is the standard i.d. it is also possible that the results were skewed by individuals who registered to vote with names slightly different than appear on their licenses. but where it was revealed that 9.2% of the state's 8.2 million voters don't have the photo i.d. cards from the state transportation department, it's cause for alarm. and it certainly casts down on prior assertions by the secretary of common worth who said 90% of voters already have the i.d. they require. in bucks county where i was born and raised, 6% lack a driver's license or the state issued non-driver's license. republican david heckler is the district attorney and has been since 2010. that year there was a single
case of voter fraud prosecuted. in montgomery county where i live now, the number is 8.5%. republican reesa ferman, there have been no voter i.d. frauds on her watch. in philadelphia, 18% of voters don't have the penn d.o.t. i.d. democratic district attorney seth williams has been in that job since 2010. there have been no voter prosecutions on his watch. so it's not as if there's a crisis demanding a solution. and who are those with their voting rights threatened? they are disproportionately poor and minority. not exactly the romney voters. no wonder at a gop state leadership meeting, the house republican leader recently said voter i.d. which is going to
allow mitt romney to win the state of pennsylvania, done. a court challenge is scheduled to be heard in two weeks. in an editorial yesterday, the philadelphia inquirer correctly noted this. what a treacherous irony it would be if the presidential election was stolen not by virtually nonexistent voter fraud but by voter i.d. being allowed to stand. that's "hardball" for now. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. welcome to "politicsnation." i'm al sharpton. tonight's lead, life imitating art in the romney campaign. folks, some time willard romney's campaign is hilarious it seems like it comes from a book. it's called "the great gatsby." it's about a party of rich
people. just days after parking his jet skis, willard romney hit the hamptons fund raising circuit. and he was at the home of one of his 1% pals. his first event was a $25,000 a person affair at a billionaire's estate. but that wasn't even the big ticket event of the day. that's right. an event held on the property with places wasn't the big moneymaker. no, no. that was a $75,000 a couple fund raiser. another billionaire. held at the home of david koch. yes, that david koch. the billionaire whose corporation plans to funnel $400 million to defeat president obama. now, let me be clear. there's nothing wrong with making money. what's wrong is that romney's policies are aimed to benefit the 1%. th